Who wants OUR Tibia back?

[Blamina]

I think it's easiest to get support for stealing from botters by the "coin on corpse" method, since players can make profit with it.

[Strazdas]

Well i would like to state that i have been a gamemaster in open tibia server (the largest one at its time) for over 2 years and helped develop it. As it was pointed out here before i am part of certain bots community. I dont play tibia for the last 9 months so its not like im an evil botter or anything. but i have inside knowledge of both ots and bots. at least more than those that never tried.
I must also note this post probably will violete all tibia posting rules, so not sure how much it stays up.

Imo they made this "slandering and agitating" rule to be able to ban people that set a boycott on a whole server. Like it happened on Inferna. People that were logging in were killed and because the boycott was legal at that time, nothing could be done about it. I was told that boycotts of this kind were often started by open tibia server owners who want to have more profit by making people quit normal Tibia. I noticed that a whole guild on Unitera has applied as testers for the flash client. They stated they were testers before... on open tibia servers. I mean... wtf... it is just unfortunate that this problem exists at all.

Intresting, never heard about Inferna boycott. but its inferna, the server meant to go fighting around. i mean they dont ban random pkers, this is same. And people who were testing stuff before on ots may not have flash knowledge, but they are mroe experienced in bug detetion/reporting than regular tibians, so i dont see nothing spectacular.
Ots are like social networks - worst ones get most profit. We ran at that time the greatest server out there and we had most players and best community, but we didnt get enough donations to run the servers, pretty much paying out of our own pocket. later on friend of mine created his own one, didnt care about community, everyone was botting like in Normal tibia but selling gp in ot he was making 500 euros profit. so i ended up making a assumption that ot owners make profit from stupid people, and those people dont learn. i dont think that peopel quitting regular tibia would increase ot profits though. most of them woudl quit tibia altogether. all those that want to go ot already went there. there is barely any new players in tibia anymore.

I know the theory, it is: Follow the botter for hours and make sure he doesn't get food by throwing coins on the falling bodies, when he has no mana anymore, lure on him or make him walk over fire.

the bot would reach a point where his mana/hp is at certain point and would go to depot/logout.

I noticed a lot people stopped to buy premium because of the winter update, more than I would have predicted.

So after 5 years of "quitting after update" they actually did it? yay.

That is exactly what I cannot understand. Tibia is an RPG game, one that you are supposed to - if not roleplay your characther - at least cara for its skills and for what he is doing or not. Where is the fun of playing Tibia or any other RPG game if you are not the one playing your own characther?

One of the most promitive psychological aspects show up here. being better at all costs. even if that means using unallowed software to do everything for you, just to get that "Edge" over the other person. player killers make thier fun in games out of others misery. the greater misery the more happy they are. if they can have only that without actually working for it, they will do it. and frankly, most of tibia are random pks now. or how they call themselves "bored highlevels".
Like one botter pointed out to me: if somone hunts rotworms for 8 hours and reaches one level, i can hunt rotworms for 8 hours, reach a level, and get a good nights sleep at the same time. people just dont want to use thier time on hunting.

2. Make botting seem unreasonable. How could we do such a thing? Obviously, botters bot because its easier to do so, they receive better exp etc. What if, suddenly, a mass of other players just happened to show up in the cave where the botter was botting for such a period of time that the botter barely received any experience. If this kept happening to botters all over the server, what impact would that have on them? Is it even worth it anymore? Also, if it is seen that someone is a botter then don't interact with them. Don't buy from them, sell to them or talk to them. I doubt this will have much of an impact on them, but who knows.

In most places, especially the non-pvp worlds, there are so many botters in same cave that they all barely get anything. that doesnt stop them. they don start playing manually. what they do is they create 10 accoutns and bot all 10 in 10 caves thus increasing profit 10 times. the other botters do the same. result? we got 99% botted characters. the interaction part was taken away from us by cipsoft. everything can be bought/sold in shops now. quests take care of the eq and most players use lvl 8 trade accounts for selling/buying while they are botting with their mains (yes, thats plural). this doesnt work.

3. Police force. As already stated, this would be a more extreme measure taken on PvP servers. The point was brought up that the servers are ruled by botters so it'd be impossible to start an uprising against them. Maybe if it was more of an underground type police force, not an official guild. As such, if one person killed a bot then the botter and their buddies wouldn't know who else was in on it just by looking at the guild. This would take alot of organization and can be very dangerous.

However without a backing from the rest of "polcie force" that meant you can kill a botter once, then have to stay in depot for a month because they will "hunt" you. you know, maybe this is a good idea afterall. if they hunt you, they wont hunt those poor mosnters, so it distracts their shedule. but thats about the best you can do. even before botting was a big thing, back in fortera around 6 years ago, i was in a guild that united around 70% of players in Fortera and we started a war against 2 leading power abusing guilds. result - we left the server. once the enemies actually showed up that 70% shrinked into 5% or less and we ended up being outnumbered by powerabusers. to add to that a lot of our guys turned on us in order not to get killed by them.

4. Building up the community. I think besides eliminating the botters, its our duty to build up the community. If we achieve this, we may be able to out number the botters after a period of time. Being the majority player base of Tibia's players and replacing the number of botters may get Cipsoft to listen to us. How do we build up the community? I think making a guild or just a group of people dedicated to improving their servers will do enough. Have an event planner, have those who work towards tutor status and consistantly work to help out others etc. Make the server feel alive and welcoming, especially to new players.

Result - once botters feal threatened they will come trash your events and rape your woman. ok sorry for the expresion, but they wont let you. there is not enough fair players left to even begin such thing. you can outnumber botters while a total sum of fair players is well bellow 25%, not to mention to get them united is much harder than to get botters united.

5. Improve the game. I think there's a general consensus on certain mechanics that aren't working. Starting proposals that are well written, outline why the mechanic is not working, how to fix it, and why this would be in Cipsoft's interest, is a good start. Start honing your "persuasive essay" skills and get ready to write some speeches. After writing them, we can't let them be buried on the proposal forums. We need to support them and keep them up long enough to get some attention.

Except that... we tried... cipsoft ignores us. or at best reply that they dont have time for this.

Hum what makes you think botters write the bots themselves? They buy the bots from a companylike entity.

Altrough it is true that there are a lot of idiots who buy bot complexes from greedy profiters there are bots that are free (and no worse) and people there write scripts themself most of the time to personalize their behaviuos in direction they want. so in essence bot gives the tools for palyer to write and execure script they have created themself. thus the innovative thnking remains. then agian there are those idiots that buy this stuff too.

Just google "tibia bot" and you'll find their websites and forums. They even give themselves company names that sound "serious". Polish kids often are called "neokids" by other Polish players after the bot they use the most. The people that make those bots seem to make a living with it and same for some of the people that host open tibia servers. Even Tibiacast makes money with premium accounts. We had highlevels on our server that made a living with selling ingame gold for rl money. There are not enough people anymore that play just for fun.

No such namecalling here. maybe people in your server are more sutpid then regular since neobot is pretty bad (atrough NG ruined its reputation as most detectable bot by cispfot so there )

Yikes, I didn't know alot of people actually bought gold on Tibia. (I should know better considering how much money people lay down for games like Farmville on Facebook.) I guess that's how long I've been gone. Since they're making money off of it, it may be more difficult to get botters to stop but I feel that if we can get enough support it will be possible.

Havent spent a cent on Tibia. Most of my premium were gifts (like i once got 3 months of premium for making a banner for a friend with photoshop), the rest i bought via ingame money. The system however is very useful for fraud now. Other games like EVE has made it officially, putting ingame mechanics to support selling game time for money. they even support donation of ingame money in such a way to support places like haiiti and Japan. they dont loose money, somone still pays for it. its trade between palyers, excelt it cant be fraud anymore. result - hundreds of thousands euros donated by people that otherwise wouldnt donate.

I think it's easiest to get support for stealing from botters by the "coin on corpse" method, since players can make profit with it.

One has to be fast though, the bots i saw opened corse within 1 second of mosnter death and faster. i havent tested all of them (definatelly not the ones that ask for money) so i cant talk for whole community.

[Chazys]

Ello, again!

Indeed, that I also mentioned on my previous post. Being the best, being the most powerful, being The Guy in the server is what most people want. But they do not want this to happen while they enjoy the game, and as a consequence of years playing, they would be good enough. They want it now, tomorrow at the best. If not, then they just do not play the game anymore.

I guess the only way to go is to build up the community against botters. It is illegal, then let us teach new player about it and show them that illegal softwares are destroying the game for far too long now.

[Blamina]

Chazys, check the Harmonia world board. Loads of threads are complaints about botting. Some of those threads were made by people that are known botters. They still bot. They write on forum that other people bot. What community are you talking about. Where is that community?

[Strazdas]

In ots. Frankly i find it that OTs has better community than cipsofts tibia. Sad but its true.
You know why? because there gms/owners actually care.

[Blamina]

You must be kidding. They are for sure not all alike. A girl in my guild tried an OT and the owner gave her a bot as greeting present. Everybody was usiung bots there and they expected everyone to use bots. I wouldn't call that a good community but you can for sure say the owner cared about her.

[Strazdas]

well sure not all are like that. i was talking about the more civilized ones, because i played those. there are always exceptions, but in general i have seen more cases of good community in ots than in real tibia so....

[Chazys]

Chazys, check the Harmonia world board. Loads of threads are complaints about botting. Some of those threads were made by people that are known botters. They still bot. They write on forum that other people bot. What community are you talking about. Where is that community?

You need to build up the community again, work from bottom to top, not the other way around - which is what you seemed to have understood. I have got rookerstayers and I know for a fact that most newbies that get out of Rookgaard seeing people killing their monsters, stealing their loot and threatening then will repeat such behaviour on mainland. However, if you teach them otherwise they may have a chance at not doing it as the majority. Is it a certainty that they will never do such a thing? No. But we can at least try, it is the very least we can do.

So those are the people we must aim if we want to se a change in the future. Not newbies in Rookgaard, but newbies in general. Even if the odds are completely against us, we must try. At least if I cannot take any other measure, that is what I do.

Regarding botters complaining of botters, that is common. People on all servers know who bots but almost no one knows who does not. And when they are enemies - the botters - they exchange accusations. However, we must not ignore the fact that they would rather have a whole respawn only for themselves to bot than to share with other botters.

One thing I cannot understand is why CipSoft have not gotten rid of them when they could, when it was easier...

[The little one]

Sorry I haven't been able to respond much these past few days, I've been surprisingly busy.

Chazys, I have to say I really appreciate your attitude. I think that's the attitude that might just bring back Tibia. I have been doing my best to respect others and help them out. If someone asks a question in the Help channel, I may not know the answer but if I'm just sitting in the depot I don't mind googling it and helping them out.

With that being said... I don't really know why CipSoft hasn't dealt with the issue. There's multiple possibilities. I have seen evidence that leads to the idea that, being just an accidental project, maybe CipSoft wasn't well equipped to skillfully and successfully deal with botters and still aren't. I've also heard that idea that CipSoft doesn't want to lose their players, we know they have very few already and getting rid of all their botting players leaves them with even fewer. This also leads into the idea that botters are paying customers, illegal or not, and they want that money.

It kind of annoys me that we have no interaction with CipSoft whatsoever on issues such as this. I think maybe if they stopped to actually talk to the community and the players, they might find some good fixes to issues. (The proposals forum seems kind of like a lost hope type place these days.)

Also, I'd like to request that if someone sees a flaw in one of our ideas on how to work this issue out, then I'd like to see you offer some of your own suggestions.

[Strazdas]

i agree that growing people from the newbie stage into good citizens are what we must do. and it used to work before, being a chatty person i found friendsi n rookguard and that carried over to mainland and ended up being in great company all the time while i played fortera. but that was back when tibia was actually thriwing game. nowadays there is rarely any new player around, ann the rookguard ones are either old people starting on new servers, and if you talk to them they go boasting that they have lvl 200 there and lvl 180 there and lvl 250 there so "dont mess with them" or if thier in bad mood " dont bother leaving rookguard". the rest wont respond becuase they are bot moneymakers whose sole purpose is to collect gold for main account.
i could agree with the idea that cipsoft simply wasnt prepared to deal with botters when the hell broke loose with aimbots and whatnot. but come on, its been what 6 years now when botting is massive part of tibia, if they cant get a grip on it in 6 years (and to add to that they fired all the free workforce - gms) maybe they really either dont want to do it or are not fit to lead such game?
i can see only one possibility how tibia wont go into the archives of "just memories". it is to totaly change the attitude of how Cip handles its costumers. but we have been asking for that ever since what 7,8? so its nto likely to happen. i mean yes there are "community manadgers" whose job is similar to mail pigeons, they tell cipsoft what we want, whether cip listes to them or not noone knows, then we get soem stnadart stamp of "we wont do this because reason x"

[Blamina]

I don't speak the languages needed to do that rook thing successfully on European servers. I have a rookstayer. The people I talked with until today are either other rookstayers, guildies or friends of me or of guildies or people from other servers. Okay I have seen some trade messages: level 2 asking to buy a katana for example. And I can talk like a waterfall.

All my projects to give noobset on main to nice people failed. They either quit and sent me the stuff back, or quit and sent me nothing back, or asked for more and more and more and turned out to be not nice at all. I still give noobset to people because it's fun. But it doesn't change the community to the better.

[Chazys]

I don't speak the languages needed to do that rook thing successfully on European servers. I have a rookstayer. The people I talked with until today are either other rookstayers, guildies or friends of me or of guildies or people from other servers. Okay I have seen some trade messages: level 2 asking to buy a katana for example. And I can talk like a waterfall.

All my projects to give noobset on main to nice people failed. They either quit and sent me the stuff back, or quit and sent me nothing back, or asked for more and more and more and turned out to be not nice at all. I still give noobset to people because it's fun. But it doesn't change the community to the better.

No one ever said that giving noobset to players would make them better. That is spoiling a player, not teaching him how to play.

o.O"

By the way, have you guys watched a YouTube Channel called:

1NpcKiller

?

[Zapan Illudus]

I miss the old graphics xP

Spoiler: View

[The little one]

I looked up 1NpcKiller and his videos are definitely worth watching.

I've had an idea, and I'm not sure if it will really work or not but I wanted to create a bunch of Tibia videos explaining the game, tutorials and how to do certain quests etc. I think a major component of Tibia is exploring, but its really hard to start an adventure when you have no idea where to start. Tibia is kind of a difficult game to get into, and if people had someone (videos on youtube) to walk them through the basics, maybe it might help get a couple people newbies playing here or there.

It might not make a huge impact, but I think it might help a tiny bit. What do you guys think?

[Strazdas]

that guy is intresting, and im glad he got the bad bot users. (im saying bad becuase people who know how to use it wouldnt get trapped and the bot automatically takes screenshot on death so they woul hunt him down regardless, so this is still a very dangeriuos situation)